and obama care only makes it even wider. as you mentioned, larry, with the co-pays going up, it's even worse -- >> we're going to play that zeke emanuel tape in a few minutes. chris kofinis, because i admire and respect you and i have so much affection for you, i want to give you a little piece of free political advice. get this guy zeke emanuel off the air. >> absolutely! >> this guy -- he's been on this show. either he lied or he was just ignorant. the guy is supposed to be a smart guy. teaches school at the university of pennsylvania. get him out of there because every time he shows up and makes the statements that he makes, this is like the democratic party dying of 1,000 cuts. chris, can you write that in, get into that the political operation of the white house? put zeke emanuel on retirement? >> yeah, i'm going to probably have to deflect that question -- >> oh, i know. >> but let me address the comment that was made about -- here i think it really is an important point to keep in mind. we're talking about a health ca